Position Briefs

Tuesday, June 8, 2010

Taking it Down, point by point

I mentioned a few posts back that I found this highly offensive piece of RW garbage on an autism discussion blog.  It has little to do with autism,well... nothing really.  Which is about all it has to do with REALITY.  So while most of you will be in the choir for the following bit of preaching, just in case there are any conservatives who stumble by, I'd like to show that we can, in fact, "defend [our views] by reasoning and logic when challenged."  It is in fact the person that WROTE this who has a mental disorder, and I'm not talking about his (supposed)  Aspberger's Syndrome.  More like leprosy of the brain.  I'm going to go just about line by line here, just for fun.  Maybe I can get some of the fools to stop taking for granted everything Fox and Limbaugh tell them. Maybe get them to question some of those "sacred dogmatic assumptions" I was talking about in my last post.

After reading a recent article posted on Autisable titled "Asperger's = Atheist?", it also made me wonder if liberalism in general is a mental disorder that can be found on the autism spectrum.

First problem: ATHEISM does not equal LIBERALISM.  (Chris Hitchens, for example, is no liberal!) Second problem: There is no school of political thought of philosophy which is a "mental disorder," either on the spectrum or otherwise. Maybe you should try actually examining something BEFORE you judge it. 

By liberals, I don't necessarily mean people who simply vote Democrat. Rather, I'm referring to leftists who have really lewd, extreme, off-the-wall beliefs.

Oh, this should be good.  Remember now: LEWD, LEWD (!), off the wall beliefs!

For example, people who worship Obama like he's their God despite the fact that everything he has done in his 1 1/2 years as president has been a failure, as if they are proud that the failures have taken place (not to mention their only argument supporting him is that anyone who disagrees with him is a 'racist').

Turn off the AM radio for five minutes, and open your mind for some strait talk. First off all: NO ONE worships Obama like a God.  That's RW nonsense, fabricated because we don't accept their predisposition to automatically judge him badly over ANYTHING and EVERYTHING.  Treating someone fairly is NOT "worshiping them" in the case of someone we judge well in the end, nor is it "HATE" in the case of someone that we judge poorly, like YOU or whomever you got this email from.  Second: WHAT failure?  Seriously.  The economy's improving, the Dow's up, The War is going better than ever, more people will have health care,  banks will be better regulated... WHAT FAILURE?!  The only "failures" are the unnecessary concessions he's made to the REPUBLICANS. Finally: Almost no one is baselessly calling you lot "racists."  That's another RW lie.  I've got ten people acting like the victim for every actual accusation.  It's nonsense.  You want to know why we might think you're a racist?  Because you think the president is a failure without ever being able to give and example of an actual failure! So... what SHOULD we conclude exactly?  Give us another reason, and we'll gladly debate you on that level.

Then there's the people who believe that it's unjust for companies to grow too large or for people to become too enriched, yet they have no problem with a super large federal government and 90% income tax rates.

NOBODY believe this. PERIOD.  NO ONE.  A company becoming "too large" means that if they fail, they could take down the whole economy, or have to be bailed out by tax payers. And NO ONE (Lib's OR Con's) likes doing THAT.  It's not about being JUST, it's about managing risk, and the conservatives are largely on board with that now, they just don't want to let OBAMA sign the law.  So to prevent him from getting credit for fixing the mess, congressional republicans are acting like babies and risking another meltdown.  Also - no one HAS EVER proposed 90% tax rates.  That's a pure, baldfaced, unadulterated LIE. (And/or you don't know how a progressive taxation system actually works.)  I'm not going to explain it all here, but even when we had a TOP TIER income tax rate of 90% (back in the 1940's and 50's) NO ONE was shelling out 90% of their income to the gov't.  Only 90% of their income OVER THE AMOUNT WHERE THAT RATE KICKS IN.  Their effective rate was not much higher than anyone else's, since we all pay the samey rate of the first X dollars we all make, rich or poor.  And in any case, NO ONE is proposing bringing that top tier rate back. NO ONE.  If you heard we were, who ever told you that IS A LIAR. PERIOD.

Then there are the ones who claim the handful of sex scandal cases in the Catholic Church are an abomination and that the practice of Christianity should be limited because of it's "discriminatory" practice, like not legalizing gay marriage and abortion. However, they don't seem to have a problem with Muslims blowing up buildings, terrorizing towns and other countries, beating and killing women that don't cover themselves in public or sin against Allah, and stoning anyone perceived to be a homosexual even by an iota to death.

More utter nonsense.  We "hate" Islam every bit as much as we "hate" Christianity.  Which is to say, that we don't hate either, but we will also treat neither as "sacred" and will  hold BOTH accountable for their misgivings.You vastly overestimate the threat of terrorism, relative to our RESPONSE to it, and as far as those poor towns and villages go? Hey - we don't like religious dictatorships over there anymore than we do over here.  But the answer is to separate church and state, not to create a Christian theocracy over here to balance out the Muslim caliphate over there!  Other than the likes of Limbaugh and Coulter I'll never understand where you people get the idea that we all LOVE ISLAM.  How does not wanting people killed, blown up and tortured, FOR NO REASON, AND WITHOUT DUE PROCESS constitute "love" or "support"?  I mean: THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ATTACKING THEM FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE, RIGHT?  How on earth do you justify do all the same things that you are using to show how bad they are?!  Bigotry justified by religion is NEVER acceptable.  It's wrong when THEY do it,m and it wrong when YOU do it.  The difference? You're HERE.  You're IN THIS COUNTRY and INFLUENCING THIS COUNTRY'S LAWS.  They're not.  So you DO pose a great threat to our freedom than they do. Because YOU have power here and they don't.  So sue me for not granting you unlimited power.

 There's other things, such as their belief that humans are equivalent to other animals, yet they are the ones who somehow are capable of destroying the earth, as if the earth is fragile; and how they believe illegal aliens and terrorists should have more rights in this country than even actual citizens.

I'm not even sure what the first line means.  Are you talking about animal rigths activists?  Or people who try to protect endangered species?  If so: What gives you the right to inflict pain on, or commit genocide on, an animal? I'm not exactly an animal rights activist myself (I eat the meat & wear the leather, baby!) but I'd LOVE to hear you're justification for driving a species to extinction just so we can cut down a few more trees.  As for the illegal aliens and terrorists?  No one is proposing giving them MORE RIGHTS than citizens.  That's BALONEY.  At best, we'd treat them as EQUALS.  And the REASON for this is one that you conservatives should be able to appreciate: We don't trust the government! Yes, you read that right,. We don't want to give the gov't the authority to torture, or detain without process or performer unreasonable searches and siezures because once you give them authority they will inevitably abuse it.  THAT'S why we want ALL people treated as well as Americans: The preamble says "inalienable HUMAN rights" not "inalien, AMERICAN rights."

As someone with aspergers, I would not correlate a relationship between aspergers and liberalism.

That's generous, seeing as how you haven't presented a shred of evidence of that.

 Rather, I would classify liberalism as its own unique mental disorder.

Wow, how profound, considering how you haven't presented a shred of evidence of that!  (You've only proven that you do not, in fact, understand ANY of the positions liberals actually hold!) And as I said in the beginning, why don't you try examining and understanding something first, BEFORE you judge it or classify it.

 Not many people consider liberalism to be an actual mental disorder because it's never classified or analyzed as such in our wonderful educational institutions.

Yeah... that's because our "wonderful educational institutions" insist on pesky things like FACTS and EVIDENCE to back up a theory, before reaching any conclusions.

 It baffles me though how liberals will not only dissent from common sense, but will hold anyone who disagrees with their crazy world views in high contempt.

No.  This is not what you really mean.  What you meant to say was, "It baffles me though how liberals will not only dissent for the sacred dogmatic assumptions that we hold dear, but will hold anyone who holds these dogmatic assumptions to be sacred in high contempt."  Now... if you'd said it THAT WAY, you'd be right.  You see... "Common sense" as you put, requires you to buy into to all that sacred dogma that you never really think about; never really examine.  If you'd take the time to do so objectively? You'll find that rather a lot of it doens't make any sense at all, and that which does requires you to see it only from a single point of view.  And if you feel you're being abused, maybe we're just getting back for the ~20 years of abuse we've suffered at the dishonest hands of Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, etc... and the kind of people who WRITE trash like this!


Okay, any group of people is going to argue in favor of their beliefs because everyone has their own beliefs and is entitled to them, but try to argue with liberals on why they think and believe what they think and believe.

You haven't DONE this.  Your distorted presentation of our so-called "positions" and "beliefs" is proof positive that you've NEVER spoken to any actual liberals.  You're just going with the distorted view of liberalism that the arch conservatives and hard-core right wing have given you.  It does not resemble any REAL LIBERALS at all!


 If you ask them, for example, what has Obama done that has helped America or why marxism is an ideal philosophy to follow.

What an absurd question!  OBAMA IS NOT A MARXIST.  We wouldn't even HAVE an answer, because most liberals aren't MARXISTS either!  You're asking us to defend something WE DON'T BELIEVE!  (How and Why would we DO THAT?!) What's more Obama's,  done PLENTY to help America.  (He cut YOUR TAXES, for example!) The economy has gotten better. Our standing in the world has improved.  He could do a lot more, but for some reason he insists on listening to YOU PEOPLE, who have no idea what YOU'RE talking about, and no idea what HE'S really talking about either!)

They may present reasons for these questions, but they are house-of-cards arguments at best.

Or they may not... Seeing as how that's not our position.  We can't defend words that you put into our mouths, and we don't intend to.

When you try to present facts to knock down the house-of-cards to get them to provide more convincing answers, they don't answer those questions.

Again, when you're asking us to defend a philosophy that is not ours, and all you;re really trying to do is trap us in some sort of "GOTCHA!" moment, no reasonable person should be surprised that you'll leave the conversation unsatisfied.  Again: Drop these dogmatic assumptions, like "We're all marxists" and try LISTENING.  You'll find out at least that you're wrong about what liberals think.  On a good day, you might actually learn how wrong conservatives are about MOST THINGS.  (And I'd LOVE to hear some of your "facts."  Becasue I haven't heard a single one yet!)

In fact, they try to dodge the question and bring up some stupid irrelevant comment.

Like, oh, I don't know... "That's a straw-man!" for example?

For example, you want to know from a liberal why Obama is such a great president who is good for America.

OK, fair question...

 You even go as far as pointing out facts such as how every policy Obama has created has further damaged the country by continuously running up the deficit, imposing draconian regulations that are meant to punish businesses for being successful and benefit only the federal government, has hurt our relations overseas with our allies, and has considerably weakened our national security.

LOL! ROTFLMAO!  Yeah.. REAL objective.  So... we're supposed to buy into all those assumptions, concede EVERY POINT,  and THEN tell you why we like Obama?!  HAHAHA! That's HILARIOUS!  How about: WE DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR PISS-POOR ASSESSMENT OF THINGS, for a start.  How about: Your judgement is completely and utterly divorced from reality?  (Or completely hypocritical, in relation to the Deficit.)
You desperately want to know what Obama has done that is so good for this country because the other side, who supports him, must have an answer that is reasonable, right? Wrong! All you're going to get is some verbiage like "Bush is a warmonger and and you're a racist if you don't support Obama!"

I'll say this unequivocally.  If you get that for an answer... If you REALLY get that for an answer... You're not talking to a liberal, you're talking to an IDIOT.  On the other hand, if you ask the question the way you did above, and you can't have a reasonable discussion assessing those various judgements... then YOU'RE an idiot!

 This isn't just psychobabble coming from stoned college kids who upkeep blogs on the Internet either; you hear this kind of nonsense from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and MSNBC news anchor Chris Matthews.

Neither of those people has ever said anything like that in response to a question like the one you asked.  I'm flat out calling BULLSHIT on that.  Neither one has EVER answered a question like the one you asked, with an answer like the one you gave.  You're full of shit.  You're lying.  BTW... you may not realize this, but Chris Mathews is no liberal. Don;t believe me? The VERY LIBERAL Media Matters for America named him [conservative] "Misinformer of the Year" in 2005.  Again: Let's put down these sacred dogmatic assumptions for a moment, and try looking at the actual EVIDENCE for a change.  It takes work, I know, but you just might learn a  thing or two and come away a wiser person.
The biggest problem is this mental disorder has plagued our educational institutions and our media.

Again - you haven't demonstrated that it's a mental disorder.  All you've shown is that you are in serious need of more accurate information.  THAT'S the jobs of our schools and media. Informing you. Not dispensing RW propaganda like this crap.  BTW... the media? NOT LIBERAL.  That's just more trash from people that are so far to the Right of REALITY that any remotely objective analysis looks like moon-bat propaganda to them.  The FACT is that the media consistently and predictably leans conservative.  And that's ALL of the media.  Note: MSNBC gives a daily show to former Republican House Representative and proud conservative, Joe Scarborough.  No other station gives ANY regular shows to liberals. PERIOD. NONE.  The myth of liberal media bias is just one more of those "sacred dogmatic assumptions" that you've accepted without any critical evaluation.  It does not stand up to scrutiny.  At all.

Kids are taught daily that America has been the most vile and corrupt country in the history of the world, Christianity should be shunned because Christians are fascists (while Islam is nothing more than a religion of peace), the earth is fragile and humans have been destroying it for the past three generations, capitalism is evil because people become rich and greedy, people who are for securing our borders are racists and should be fined and arrested (as opposed to people who actually enter this country illegally), using corn to fuel cars is an adequate substitute to oil despite the rise in food prices, and sex should be a daily activity encouraged in school by the distribution of condoms.

What the fuck school did YOU go to?!  No one is being taught anything like this!  America is taught OBJECTIVELY.  We've done great good, and we've committed great evil.  Considering that we were one of the last countries to finally abolish slavery, and it took a civil war to do it, I'd say that qualifies us as IMPERFECT.  Nothing regarding the virtue or flaws of Christians OR Muslims is tough in any public school. PERIOD. To do so would be a violation of your first amendment rights, and liberals wouldn't have it any other way.  If your school is teaching you that ANY religion is inherently good or ANY religion is inherently evil - SUE THEIR ASSES OFF.  Because that's against the law, and a violation of your civil rights. The earth is not fragile, and no one is being taught that. What is being taught is the FACT that it's ability to sustain life is.  And we're not "taught" that we're destroying it, we're being SHOWN EVIDENCE that we're destroying it.  There's a difference.  Actually, plenty of lliberals think ethanol from Corn is a mistake.  That's not AT ALL something that liberals support universally.  Your view on sex - apart form being the very first example of a "lewd" belief (a word you used in your opening salvo) - is again, no more than a distortion.  Keeping condoms from teenagers will NOT stop them from having sex.  Teenagers have been having sex long before the invention of latex.  We favor a frank, objective, well informed discussion, with actual facts so that you can make informed choices about sex, and we want condoms made available to anyone who DECIDES to have sex, to prevent the spread of disease and unwanted pregnancy.  You mind telling me what's wrong with that?
So, this may have come off as a political speech, but I believe it is more than that.

Personally, I believe that it's LESS, but you're entitled to believe what you want.
 If a group of people have outlandish, extreme, radical views that they are unable to defend by reasoning and logic when challenged, then I do believe that said people have a mental disorder.

You've summed up perfectly how I feel about most conservatives; especially ones who write, believe and distribute collections of lies and distortions like this garbage.
Of course, I probably wouldn't be writing this if I didn't feel it was a major issue.

Oh.. you've got some major issues all right.
Liberalism has plagued Europe and is plaguing America. The only end result is misery.

Yes, you started out with the assumption that it's a plague, and misery and a mental disorder.  But you present NO EVIDENCE to support that.  It's like I was supposed to agree with every bullshit lie you told and every bullshit assumption you made and in the end shrug my shoulders and say, "Yeah, you're right."  The only problem? YOU DIDN'T ACTUALLY ADDRESS ANYTHING I (OR ANY LIBERAL) ACTUALLY BELIEVES!
All you did was start out by saying, "I can't believe you people actually believe this stuff!" and proceeded to rant about a bunch of stuff WE DON'T BELIEVE.  If anyone wants to show me why Obama is such a lousy President, by all means have at it.  The fact is, I've heard nothing but sharp, principled criticism of him from the left and nothing but outright lies and vile distortions like this crap from the Right.  If your party and/or philosophy had any value, GEORGE W. BUSH wouldn't have experienced eight years of failure in which he accomplished nothing and backslid on every single issue facing this country.

And if you don't believe me, I defy you to name ONE ISSUE that we made progress on during his tie in office.  I've issue that challenge before and no conservative has ever been able to answer it.  None even made an ATTEMPT.  So come on, let's hear it conservatives!  Tell me ONE SPECIFIC THING that Obama has done wrong, or ONE ISSUE that George W.  Bush made any progress on.

Gooooood luckwithat.

3 comments:

  1. If radical conservative philosophy was of real value to America, its proponents would not have to be mendacious.

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  2. "Mr. 'Liberals are Autistic,' what you have just said, is the most insanely idiotic things I have just heard. At no point in your.. rambling, incoherent response, were you close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

    Seriously, though. On the topic of mental illness, this man... sounds, ironically, like a sociopath. He doesn't seem to understand that people have different views, and if they DO have different views, he believes it's not because human beings are a diverse creature with a diverse set of values and education, he just flat-out says something must be seriously wrong with them.

    It's not only that he REALLY hates liberals, (obviously) but from his "education system" comment, he doesn't seem to understand why ANYONE can NOT hate liberals just as much as him.

    But, lemme digress for a second. His point of that entire article was not a psychological analysis or observation, it was simply a strawman-filled insult of people who don't agree with him, while SIMULTANEOUSLY insulting people with real mental disorders.

    But. Lemme digress even farther. According to studies, liberals are, on average and in general, 9 points of IQ higher than conservatives. That's mental illness I can live with.

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  3. Anon,

    Agreed, 100%. Good ideas tend to sell themselves.

    Drad,

    Also agreed, 100%. I think I posted something ahwile back about not only the IQ disparity, but citing an article that showed liberals to be "evolved" as well.
    (http://eddiecabot.blogspot.com/2010/02/newsflash-liberals-are-smarter-more.html if you're interested.

    Thanks for your comments. I hope the asshole who posted that trash somes here to see your comments as well as mine!

    ReplyDelete